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A fun 2D retro platformer inspired by Sonic games and a game creation system

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#1 2018-03-16 16:06:22

TheSeventhEmerald
Member
From: Spain
Registered: 2010-04-19
Posts: 302

Milestones for Open Surge

Hey,

I see a lot of new activity here. Also I see that there is a growing interest again the official level design and so on and so on.  That's why I am here again -with some new proposals, as always.

Reading the topics, I see that Alexandre thinks that it would be better to integrate the new SurgeScript before starting on level creation -for obvious reasons, we do not want to code the game twice. However, Open Surge still has a big problem: mostly complete absence of professional artists so the aesthetic of the game are very nice. The lack of content, I am sure, prevents the game for becoming more popular. The MODs are nice, but when you first enter into the Open Surge page, still there is the very old Open Sonic 0.1.4 version, with only two levels. Not very user-friendly.

So, in my opinion, we should work in parallel in both directions: make real content for 0.2.0, a complete game, with, say, 7 zones, 2 acts + boss each. In the meanwhile, Alexandre can work in SurgeScript.

Because, SurgeScript was announced like 1 of January of 2017. That is one year and some months ago. If we started working on levels for the game, at this time we could have easily more content -even if some aspect, like the art, are not exactly 100% polished. At least, people would play for a while and find what Open Surge really is and what it can expect from the game. We would use the content to attract new artists, musicians, and probably coders that can make a contribution. Finding coders interested in programming in the C language is not easy, but I think some might be interested in doing commits.

Because Open Surge HAS content. There are some dozens of levels created by modders. But do the final user really go deep into the forum and downloads things? I don't think so. At least, not at the beginning of the game. But with only demo content I am afraid we are not getting people.

So, I suggest the following:

1. Make 0.2.0 default version. Come on, when this was in super-active development the page still was showing the 0.1.4 version because we was expecting still some major changes in 0.2.0, such as the cutscenes or special stages, as well as the official content. Then it was delayed by a possible Android version. Now, for SurgeScript. Basically, all the new modders are using the 0.2.0 version. When they enter the forum at first, what we said them is "change to 0.2.0". So, why maintain 0.1.4 in the webpage? It gives a very bad image to the project. The other day I showed the game to a bunch of indie developers and the only reaction was "Do they have permission to use Sonic? They are going to have legal problems." or even "Is this just another crappy fangame?". The attention lasted for three seconds -so we need some kind of new image, using 0.2.0 as the default version. 

2. Alexandre, you should give us an idea of when could be SurgeScript be integrated. No matter if you say "next year" or even longer, I understand you do this in your spare time and it is difficult to work on it. But it would be nice to have an approximate idea to know when it is going to be available.

3. Modders of OpenSurge, I invoke you! If Alexandre allows us, I propose to make some levels. Come on, two or three modders, two zones each -and we have at least a playable game. I offer myself to compose all the music required for this, and also for the official levels that will be done in the future. I have music studies now and it is going to be far better than the old things I posted here years ago. In addition to that, I have a lot of experience with coding so I can help making objects, enemies, or whatever other thing you need.  I would contribute to the source code itself if I had experience with standard C, but it is not the case.

4. After the 0.2.0 has jumped in, we have kind of small idea of what levels we can do, we work on that parallel to the development of SurgeScript. Once it is finished, we can start talking the new official levels, hopefully with new people obtained through a good marketing campaign.  I tried to do some marketing for the game a pair of years ago but I think at the end I failed.

Basically now I have more free time and I want to spend some of it trying to produce better content to the engine. I think that the proposals could make the project more interesting. So, let's see what Alexandre thinks about this and then we try to recover some of the magic of Open Surge!

Last edited by TheSeventhEmerald (2018-03-16 16:07:56)


Piece of cake...!

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#2 2018-03-16 18:27:46

svgmovement
Member
Registered: 2011-11-24
Posts: 209

Re: Milestones for Open Surge

I have a few thoughts about this.

1. I know that there is http://opensnc.sourceforge.net/beta/ hiding on this site. Maybe this beta page should be moved to the forefront, with the Open Sonic page archived somewhere.

2. I would like to hear Alexandre's perspective on the likely timeline, no matter how soon or late it will be.

3. If Alexandre does allow it, I could help with drafting storylines for the Modders' levels, to tie the levels together. I am also willing to offer assistance to any Modders with respect to object design.

4. Maybe OpenSurge with the new SurgeScript could be version 0.3.0?

Last edited by svgmovement (2018-03-16 18:36:54)


-- svgmovement

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#3 2018-03-17 07:59:43

G.E.R.
Member
From: Russia, Krasnodar
Registered: 2017-12-26
Posts: 177

Re: Milestones for Open Surge

I working on creating several levels. At the moment:
Sunshine Paradice - 2: the level is complete (80%)
Waterworks - 1: complete brickset, base map + decorations, and all objects from wiki. Need to create enemies
Waterworks - 2: I created base level map, but when the level was saved, a failure occurred (BSOD) and I work on map again. There are transport tubes on act 2.
Rainbow Realm - 1 is remake of Speed Slider (level is completed, but without enemies). There are uses a vertiacal looping system on this act (as Metropolis, Ice Cap, Lost Labyrinth, ect).
RR-2 in developing. May create it with brickset from Balloon Park?
Black Forest - 1: created brickset + decorations and some objects (door+switch and Charge's prison). Also, I created small fragment of map.
I think about BFZ - 2. This level for Surge and Charge and, probably it level will have elements of quests and labyrinth.

0_19cce8_14aee340_orig

So, I'm asking for your help: draw the enemies for WWZ, RRZ and BFZ and think of some interesting objects for RRZ-1. I learning a computer drawing and can to draw it. And bosses, too.

I think that I lay out preliminary work next week and I want you to appreciate it with maximum critics and remarks.

I think that Alexandre need to work on the main page of the site, because there are non working links. May be to separate Open Surge and Open Sonic parts on site and adding a few new mods on OpenSonic page with available links?

Last edited by G.E.R. (2018-03-17 09:18:43)

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#4 2018-03-18 18:31:23

Alexandre
Administrator
From: Brazil
Registered: 2009-01-27
Posts: 3,300
Website

Re: Milestones for Open Surge

First of all, thank you guys for your interest in the game.

SurgeScript is done. What is needed now is the integration and a documentation. I expect this till the half of this year.

Additionally, Open Surge uses Allegro 4 on the backend, which is really outdated technology. Although it works, we need to upgrade it. I have no deadline for this at the moment.

Let me tell you what my side of the story is: I'm concerned about finances right now. If Open Surge could at least finance itself, it would be a huuuuuuuuuuge leap. With a value as little as $300/month (that's 10 dollars a day), we could get something done.

My work with Open Surge has been inconsistent lately: I make huge progress on some days, and then there is a hiatus. Trust me guys, I want to work on Open Surge on a more consistent basis. However, I cannot be more blunt than this: I need financial support. I assure you this is the most important thing.

One way we could get financial support is to port the engine to mobile and run ads on it. If you modders could make really great mods and do the marketing for your own mods, reaching out to people with the ad-supported mobile version of the engine, reaching the minimum of $10/day wouldn't be unfeasible at all.

Regarding the official levels, I ask you to work on your own mods or on beta versions of the levels only. The first reason being: the levels are going to change. Second: the first impression matters. I want the first version of Open Surge to be really polished in terms of code, art and level design (by the way, we have an Art Specification Document). The first version of the game doesn't need to be complete, but it needs to be excellent. I want to take as much time as needed for this.

I understand your thurst guys. Still, I personally feel the best way to go right now is for you to work on MODs. Why? First, you will channel your creativity your own way. Second, you will get good with the engine, unleash its power and get better in terms of art, level design and so on. Third, your mods will help us with marketing and with growing a user-base.

If you want to work on the official level design, please get really good at it first. Make your own set of really polished levels, with slopes, loops, no bugs and addictive gameplay.

The reason why I haven't changed the webpage is because we haven't released the game. That being said, we could have a webpage about the engine only (for now), with mods.

svgmovement wrote:

If Alexandre does allow it, I could help with drafting storylines for the Modders' levels, to tie the levels together. I am also willing to offer assistance to any Modders with respect to object design.

I see no problem on you helping modders with storylines or object design. The more MODs you make, the more proficient you get.

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#5 2018-03-19 20:02:59

TheSeventhEmerald
Member
From: Spain
Registered: 2010-04-19
Posts: 302

Re: Milestones for Open Surge

Thank you, Alexandre, for making this awesome engine! I am always trying to get new strategies to make it work because I really love it, I am willing to see it complete!

SurgeScript is done. What is needed now is the integration and a documentation. I expect this till the half of this year.

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaay! Really wanting to check it out!

About the financial support: of course it would be nice if you could get it, you really deserve some compensation for the work done. However, getting financial support with an alpha version of a game is complicated.
In my opinion, what really attracts the fundings is the content. If you want people playing the game in the appstore, it needs content. That means that it needs a way to download and play user MODs that is easy for the user. However, take in account that the public playing in a mobile platform is really away from the open source world and expects content. And in Android, the creation of content is really limited, so the content has to be included/downloaded in some easy way.

the first impression matters. I want the first version of Open Surge to be really polished in terms of code, art and level design (by the way, we have an Art Specification Document). The first version of the game doesn't need to be complete, but it needs to be excellent. I want to take as much time as needed for this

In part, that is why I suggest  to create some content levels for Open Surge. They don't need to be the official ones. We can skip any plot or cutscene. Even we can select some contents from the MODs and ship it to the game. However, the important thing is to give the players a good idea of what Open Surge is and what can be done with it. See for example 0 AD, they tell your in a very big box that it is an IN-DEVELOPMENT game and that many features are still missing. There is no official campaign -but there is content enough for playing it for hours.

Basically, I see no difference in telling the Modders to make good MODs and actually making this good MODs part of the official content of the (alpha version of the) game -once the game gets more popular, or gets funding, or both, it is possible to make THE real official content, which will be absolutely the greatest of all. In my personal opinion, nobody expects ultra-high art in the 0.2.0 version or 0.3.0 version of a game.

When I download a game, I expect to have a game. Seeing a two level demo, at least for me, it is kind of deceiving. Surely, it would be better with great art, but my first impression with an empty game is not good also. I believe that the player can be seriously warned that 1. what he/she plays is a game in development, 2. that we are looking for artists, level designers, and contributors in general. I hope they will be able to appreciate that. And once the 1.0 kicks in, everybody will be able to see the difference.

In any case, I also understand completely your point of view. I simply try to put in the discussion another alternative that may be good to recruit new people. Maybe it is a big error, I don't know -but it is simply a solution we could consider.

But! if you think the direction we should choose is better and better MODs, then count on me for new content! As I said before, I have more free time. So I will download Open Surge, start playing MODs, and probably contact with the modders to make actually original good music for the levels, current ones or new ones. big_smile big_smile big_smile

And again Alexandre, thank you for the efforts, I understand it is not easy at all to carry out alone a big project like this wink

Last edited by TheSeventhEmerald (2018-03-19 20:05:18)


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#6 2018-03-22 14:11:29

SynfigMaster91
Member
Registered: 2017-10-10
Posts: 144

Re: Milestones for Open Surge

I can see you guys are making a great effort to continue Open Surge. Good luck you guys!

I hope my Speedy the Rollerskater mod supports your project smile

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